I concur with the statement about some congregations having more ex-elders than elders. In one hall I attended, we had almost twice as many ex-elders as compared to currently-serving elders. I've seen a similar phenomenon with Ministerial Servants, too.
Olin Moyles Ghost
JoinedPosts by Olin Moyles Ghost
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18
Is the number of elders/servants increasing or decreasing?
by Olin Moyles Ghost inover the last few years, i have noticed an increase in the number of pleas from the platform for brothers to "reach out" for "privileges of service.
" it has even been said that there are not enough elders and servants in the congregations.
this could be a local phenomenon, but i suspect it is more widespread.
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Is the number of elders/servants increasing or decreasing?
by Olin Moyles Ghost inover the last few years, i have noticed an increase in the number of pleas from the platform for brothers to "reach out" for "privileges of service.
" it has even been said that there are not enough elders and servants in the congregations.
this could be a local phenomenon, but i suspect it is more widespread.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Over the last few years, I have noticed an increase in the number of pleas from the platform for brothers to "reach out" for "privileges of service." It has even been said that there are not enough elders and servants in the congregations. This could be a local phenomenon, but I suspect it is more widespread.
Does anyone on this board know the total number of elders and ministerial servants in the organization (or in their country)? If so, do you know whether this is more or less than in years past? Any information would be enlightening.
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Pics and Bios of Current Governing Body
by purplesofa inas i was reading through the bios, every one of the members is married, which i did not know.. and only three where born before 1935.. .
http://walkerimages.com/gov/gb2008.html.
governing body of jehovah's witnesses january 2009. .
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Olin Moyles Ghost
If I recall correctly, none of these guys became anointed before 1935. Jack Barr is the only one old enough to have done so, and I think I read somewhere that he didn't "get the calling" until the 40s or so. Perhaps someone can verify this.
I wonder if Jack Barr ever thought he would become an old man "in this system." Just another example of how time is the enemy of the WT...
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so they never claimed to be an inspired prophet?
by ninja in*** si p. 9 all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial ***.
line of communication.
16 someone may ask, what has been the means of communication?
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Olin Moyles Ghost
@iknowall: you've got to understand one thing. It's only false prophecy when someone else predicts a date for Armageddon. When the WT leadership does this, it's just "eagerness" and "zeal."
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so they never claimed to be an inspired prophet?
by ninja in*** si p. 9 all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial ***.
line of communication.
16 someone may ask, what has been the means of communication?
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Just checked on this thread...seven pages already...wow.
In the past, I was surprised at the "logic" used by some JWs to justify the false prophecies of their religious leaders--especially their tortured, twisted, convoluted definition of the term "prophecy." It's absurdly simple--if you predict something in God's name, then you're a prophet. If you're wrong, then you're a false prophet. (Deut. 18:20-22). Not too complicated. So, I wondered, how in the world could WT/JW believers doggedly defend their religious leaders in spite of the facts? It puzzled me.
But then I remembered something about human nature, and the power of a strongly-held belief. It doesn't matter that it's patently absurd. What matters is the strength of belief. You know, there are people out there that will argue the following "facts" for days and cannot be convinced otherwise:
- that the earth is flat (yes, there are some people today who still believe this)
- that cigarettes don't really cause cancer
- that the planet earth is only 6,000 years old
- that seatbelts cause more harm than good
- that the moon landing was faked
In other words, some people simply don't have the intelligence, humility, and/or honest-heartedness to face up to the facts. Nowhere is this more prevalent than in the area of religion. But that's the way it has always been, and it will be that way for the rest of our lives...time to move on. If some wish to remain deluded, allow them to remain that way.
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Word on the street is that Facebook is going to be banned...
by middleman in...at the next assembly.
i've heard from various sorces that the gb are planning on making it off limits, like they have already done for myspace.
has anyone else heard this?
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Myspace has been "banned" in that it has been called out from the platform at assemblies and C.O. visits. To my knowledge, there is nothing in print, and it is not the sort of thing that would warrant judicial action. But, I would put Myspace in the category of R-rated movies and going to nightclubs--things that JWs are not supposed to do (but 'bad' JWs do them anyway).
It would not surprise me if the WTS comes down on Facebook. In fact, I am surprised that so many JWs are on Facebook when it's a social networking site like Myspace. It seems that if Myspace is "bad," then Facebook would be "bad" for the same reasons.
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Would you rather see the WTS move mainstream or just collapse in a heap?
by ThomasCovenant inmaybe eventually the wts will adapt and change and try to go mainstream.. as 'new shite' shines brightly then;.
maybe eventually celebrating birthdays and even christmas will be 'allowed' without too many repercussions.. maybe eventually the 'blood' issue will fade away and 'brothers' wil be allowed the whole lot of fractions together at the same time.. maybe eventually disfellowshipping and particularly shunning will be seen as unloving and done away with.. personally i would rather this wouldn't happen.. i would prefer to see the wts collapse in the mire even with all the emotional fallout there would be to those still in having their crutches pulled away from them.. i don't want the wts to modify and adapt and go more gentle on the rank and file.. i want them to get more harsh with the brothers.. i want it to go down, not along.. am i being too cruel to those still in?.
would the more loving caring attitude be to hope that the wts changes for the better?.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
The WT isn't going away in our lifetimes. While it has (and likely will continue to) become more mainstream, it will not become a 'mainstream' religion in our lifetimes either. When I say that the WT will become more mainstream, I mean that JWs will continue to be more "worldly" in their personal choices, such as college, entertainment, careers. But the WT/JW religion will not become mainstream in the sense that it will likley continue to forbid holidays, birthdays, politics, and the like.
Part of the appeal of the WT/JW religion is is exclusivity and its (for lack of a better term) weirdness. For a segment of society, the fact that the WT/JW religion is strange and different is appealing. Why? Well, one reason is that it leads to opposition from friends and family. This is interpreted as "persecution." The Witness is conditioned to expect to be persecuted for his beliefs. Thus, this reinforces his position that he is "in the truth."
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What % of WT Society Higher Ups Really Believe what the WT Teaches ?
by flipper inas opposed to how many gb members, wt legal, wt corporate attorneys and the powers of the wt society know it's a big scam to exert power and control over it's members ?
as always i look forward to your opinions and observations .
peace out to all, mr. flipper.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
If the question is what percentage of WT leaders believe every current JW doctrine--then, I would say very few. But if the question is what percentage believe that the Governing Body is God's channel of communication and the only means of salvation--then I would say 100% or very close to it.
Any studious JW is going to have some unresolved questions and issues with WT teachings. A classic example is the teaching that you must be a JW to survive Armageddon. Very few JWs (among those to whom I've spoken about this matter) really believe that God is going to kill billions of Chinese and Arabs at Armageddon. Rather, they are content to "wait on Jehovah" and "trust in his mercy," etc. So, while such JWs don't necessarily agree with this specific teaching, they do believe in the more important teaching that the WT/GB is God's representative on earth and the only means for salvation.
As someone once stated on this board (I think it was V)--JWs don't believe in anything. And that's 100% true. They have put their faith and allegiance in nine men in New York. Doctrines can change; rules can change; but as long as the JW believes that salvation only comes through the WT society, he is on the "right track."
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189
so they never claimed to be an inspired prophet?
by ninja in*** si p. 9 all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial ***.
line of communication.
16 someone may ask, what has been the means of communication?
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Olin Moyles Ghost
I love how the Watchtower leadership twists the English language in order to avoid any accountability for their failed prophecies. Reminds me of former U.S. President Bill Clinton who famously stated "it depends on what your definition of 'is' is." He was rightly mocked and ridiculed for this absurd parsing of words. And this is the reaction that the WT deserves for its blundering attempts to avoid accountability as a prophet.
Yes, the WT Society is doing its best to 'have its cake and eat it too.' On the one hand, the Society claims to be God's only channel of communication and man's only means for salvation (to get to Jesus, you must go through the WT). Consequently, the Society demands complete obedience and adherence to its doctrines and rules. Just like the Catholic Pope, the Mormon President, and the like.
But on the other hand, the Society insulates itself from any accountability for its mistakes. It does this in several ways. For example, by impugning the character of individuals who bring these mistakes to light. Also, by twisting and contorting the definition of the word "prophet" beyond recognition.
By doing this, the Society demonstrates characteristics closer to that of the "evil slave" of Matthew 24. Note that the evil slave thought his master was delaying. In order to think your master is delaying, you must have expected him to come earlier (otherwise it would not be a delay). Who was it that expected the master to come earlier? Any reasonable observer will recognize that the WT Society has brazenly predicted Christ's return numerous times--and each time was a failure. Perhaps this is why the Society beats its fellow slaves...
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189
so they never claimed to be an inspired prophet?
by ninja in*** si p. 9 all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial ***.
line of communication.
16 someone may ask, what has been the means of communication?
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Olin Moyles Ghost
The WT becomes quite Bill Clinton-esque when it comes to the word "prophet." And it's not surprising. This is one area in which a plain reading of scripture indicts the Society cleanly and crisply.
Thus, the Society uses "weasel words" and sophistry in order to somehow rationalize that making predictions in God's name is not prophecy. If that's not prophecy, then what in the world does the word mean? Basically, they eviscerate any meaning of the word in order to save their own skin.
Note the Society's favorite scriptures (Matt. 24:45-51 and Luke 12:42-46). In both accounts, which servant/slave is expecting the Lord to return at a particular time? Not the "faithful" one, but rather the "evil" one--because he is the one who thinks his master is delaying. In order to think the master is delaying, he must have identified a particular time at which he expected the master to return.
And who identified a time at which the master was expected to return? Well, that would be the Watchtower Society.
And Steve2, I think you're referring to Luke 21:8...another verse that blows the Society out of the water.